[Albion Knight]

Well, here we are, into the new year after my last blog entry just before Xmas (yes XMAS!). We got all the quests in, in time, and the designers have played through the whole game a couple of times. Needless to say our bug counts are on the way up, especially as the test team in the US is beginning to get their teeth into the build, but enough of that, and onto the subject of today's Blog....Achievements!



So, I'm in charge of them and if you hate them all, it's my fault. Yet again, I am sworn to secrecy on 'what' the specific achievements are, but I can babble on why we have chosen the types of achievements we have. They basically fall into the following categories:


1. Secret: Nope, we are having no secret achievements, none, nada, zero, zip. We have been told by a reliable source that games with secret achievements actually sell less copies as people like to check them out before a purchase. This is a pity as I (and most on the deb team) wanted the whole achievement system handled in game with ALL of them secret, and that by talking to villagers and finding things around the world, the achievements get revealed. Oh well, it's a pity all you guys are such achievement whores!


2. Story: There have to be a number of achievements set aside for reaching certain points through the story, so these are taken as read.


3. Combat: Obviously combat plays a major part in Fable, and therefore there are a number of achievements based on the player fighting bad men and monsters. However we have tried to steer away from grinds like ‘kill 100 Hobbes’ or ‘Butcher 100 villagers’ and focus more rewarding players who use all the aspects of combat. Therefore there will be rewards for doing ‘cool stuff’ in the 3 realms of combat and overall combat achievements.


4. Simulation: Every player will play the story in Fable 2, but we don’t know how many people will go and explore the huge simulation the game has, and that’s why we have put a decent number in that cover it. These achievements are planned to encourage the player to do all the fun things in Fable 2 that they might otherwise miss, the mantra is ‘getting achievements should be fun’ not a grind.


5. Collectors: Of course, some of you out there are completionists and there will be a number of achievements based on collecting various sets of things around the world. This also pushes players to explore all the dark recesses of every dungeon and level, and again, shouldn’t be actually repetitive.


6. Stupid: How can we have a Fable game without taking something and making it funny, well, at least we think they are funny. Some of these are a little close to the bone, so MS US might give us a poke and say ‘nope you can’t have that in’. :-)


7. Morality: Some of us noticed something interesting when playing Mass Effect, as we knew there was an achievement for being or , some of us changed our decisions because we wanted achievement points. This was really bad as it meant the 'hero' was less about our decisions and more about getting points in game. Fortunately, unlike Mass Effect, Fable has an infinite number of and points lying around (as well as the other scale...Hmm, don't know if you know about that yet, think I mentioned it in my feartheboot blog) so hopefully people will play however they want, rather than push to an achievement. Which comes to a question, what do you think? Do you want something outside of the game (usually called a 'meta' game mechanic) influencing the way you play the game, does it spoil it for you? This is one of the categories I am split down the middle of keeping at the moment.


Finally I’d just like to pick out a few games that I thought did Achievements badly and well, see if you agree:


Blue Dragon: Terrible... I have almost finished the game, and got 35 points in total, most are for getting the characters to the highest level possible, all grind-tastic and terribly balanaced.


Eternal Sonata: Terrible... they are all secret, and so far all the ones I have had are for progressing the story, how very dull.


Avatar: Ha ha ha ha...


Guitar Hero 2: Awesome... The best use of achievements in my opinion. This was the first game that continually made me go back and get a bit more money to buy that last guitar finish, or to get that last song on 5*, brilliant balancing. Unlike Guitar Hero 3, that was balanced so poorly at the end of Hard level that it has stopped me worrying about the achievements.


PGR4: Pretty ... The achievements in PGR4 were pretty. I found myself picking up a few each time I played, and that is how I hope the Fable 2 ones work. You could also pick a specific one and finish it with 5-10 mins work, whereas others still popped up in the middle of tight races.


So, overall, we have tried to keep them varied, and reward the player for seeing the whole game (something we did very badly in Fable 1), I hope you enjoy them all.


Mike......


(N.B. This is the plan for them at the moment, I make no promises that they will stay following the 5 points above, but I will try!)

Source

[Dark Drakan]

Really great article and interesting and thoughtful ways of incorporating achievements that will require multiple playthroughs, exploration, and doing cool stuff. +rep

[Angel]

Wicked article - and glad with some of their decisions about how they are doing the achievements in the first place. Multiple playthroughs without the danger of it getting headache-inducing repetitive...nice

I do hope the "Stupid" option stays unchanged...I love Fable humour and it would be a shame for it to be altered to keep bigwigs happy...

[Dark Drakan]

Also no kill 100 Hobbes achievements or anything tedious that might bore you which is great news.

[Angel]

Their idea to keep everything secret would have actually been pretty amazing...certainly pushes the gamer to try and do as much as possible in order to attain as many achievements as they can before resorting to an FAQ to find out the others...

Shame they won't be going ahead with it - although I do understand why...

[Dark Drakan]

Originally Posted by Angel

Their idea to keep everything secret would have actually been pretty amazing...certainly pushes the gamer to try and do as much as possible in order to attain as many achievements as they can before resorting to an FAQ to find out the others...

Shame they won't be going ahead with it - although I do understand why...

Yeah it would have been good in one aspect to tempt people to explore more and do more things. However it can also be frustrating not knowing what you have to do to unlock an achievement.

[Angel]

Yeah, that's me...and then once I find out what I do have to do I throw a tantrum because I invariably cannot manage it anyway

[Albion Knight]

It's easy to make them secret for ourselves. Just don't read the specifics.
I peaked at the list with trepidation hoping to not see the exact achievements. I still haven't looked at the achievements for Massassin's Creffect yet.

I'll look at them once I've had a play through or two. I'll do the same for Fable 2

[Dronaj]

Fortunately, unlike Mass Effect, Fable has an infinite number of and points lying around (as well as the other scale...Hmm, don't know if you know about that yet, think I mentioned it in my feartheboot blog)

interesting, what could this "other scale" be? perhaps they are putting further depth into the character's morality and not limiting it simply to just good points and evil points. any ideas?

[Albion Knight]

Originally Posted by Dronaj

interesting, what could this "other scale" be? perhaps they are putting further depth into the character's morality and not limiting it simply to just good points and evil points. any ideas?

Cruelty and Kindness
I look forward to the Feartheboot blog

[Triz]

W0W! Great find! +REP

[sabre3993]

Yea great find, I hope they do stay in the lines, this leaves a little something for everybody. And Keep the stupid achievements!!!!! Kick a chicken 100yards-20G lol. that's be a cool one. haha

[Tanro]

Wow Great find +Rep!!

[Dronaj]

Originally Posted by Albion Knight

Cruelty and Kindness
I look forward to the Feartheboot blog

wow really? dang that's cool. thanks.

[Tanro]

I just hope that they hide some of the non secret achievements. Like in Halo 3 I had that game FOREVER before I found that last friggin skull.