Bored, so I made this thread :Debate Thread:

[FableFreak]

Talk to me about that topic Fable_Fan005, it was actually going to be my next topic after this one. Coincedance, I think not...


Anyone on pro want tot add anything?

Angel I disagree when you say they should spend life in prison because many murderers quite frankly don't give a rats ass that they killed anyone and will even sometimes kill their cellmate because they know they will never get out so why does it matter to them. That is why they should be put to death.

[Reaver]

yeah go for it Fable_Fan005 or you fablefreak1.
If there is a risk of someone killing there cell mate then they usually put in solitary arn't they? (i want to say something about let the animals kill themselves but im not sure i agree with it)

[FableFreak]

Originally Posted by Reaver

yeah go for it Fable_Fan005 or you fablefreak1.
If there is a risk of someone killing there cell mate then they usually put in solitary arn't they? (i want to say something about let the animals kill themselves but im not sure i agree with it)

They are usually put in solitary confinemant after they kill their cellmate...

[Angel]

Originally Posted by fablefreak1

Angel I disagree when you say they should spend life in prison because many murderers quite frankly don't give a rats ass that they killed anyone and will even sometimes kill their cellmate because they know they will never get out so why does it matter to them. That is why they should be put to death.

Just out of interest, do you have anything solid to back that up or is it just opinion? And as yet no one has given me what I would consider a suitable debate for keeping the death penalty - it's all opinion which seems to be based on TV, not reality. Give me a reasonable argument in defence of the death penalty and I will gladly take it on board.

[Reaver]

with all due respect all your agruments (as far as i can tell) are opinions aswell, and there will always be oposing opinions on the matter, no one knows whats going on in someones mind so we can only guess that if someone commits a crime that bad then somethings wrong with them.
Everyone knows about the death penalty, am i correct in assuming that? if so, they know that if they kill x people (or whatever) they will get this penalty but they do it anyway

[FableFreak]

Originally Posted by Angel

Just out of interest, do you have anything solid to back that up or is it just opinion? And as yet no one has given me what I would consider a suitable debate for keeping the death penalty - it's all opinion which seems to be based on TV, not reality. Give me a reasonable argument in defence of the death penalty and I will gladly take it on board.

Ok, how about this. If someone killed your closest relative or loved one in a gruesome, horrific, and painful way how would you feel? Would you want them to live their life and spare them mercy? Why shouldn't they have to go through the same thing your loved one had to endure, not to mention the fact that lethal injection is painless because it simply stops heart functions. Why should they sit in a prison cell without regret for their whole life knowing that they were kept alive and that even hough they have blood on their hands they simply don't care. That is something I want you to think about...












So there is no more f*cking confusion...































Evidence why we NEED the death penalty:

This is a true story, I'm not making this up

A woman was sentanced to life in prison for killing her 18 year old son for no reason, she had no reason, she just killed him in cold blood. She was NOT mentally insane and no history of drug use. She was sent to jail where she remained for 8 years. On the eight year she was put on parole for good behavior. After she leaves the prison she goes home and guess what she does? SHE KILLS HER HUSBAND FOR NO REASON!!! She was sent back to prison to serve the rest of her life sentance w/out the posibillity of perole, that is why we should not grant perole to murderers and why we need the death penalty.

[§ephiroxa§]

Originally Posted by fablefreak1

Ok, how about this. If someone killed your closest relative or loved one in a gruesome, horrific, and painful way how would you feel? Would you want them to live their life and spare them mercy? Why shouldn't they have to go through the same thing your loved one had to endure, not to mention the fact that lethal injection is painless because it simply stops heart functions. Why should they sit in a prison cell without regret for their whole life knowing that they were kept alive and that even hough they have blood on their hands they simply don't care. That is something I want you to think about...

Evidence why we NEED the death penalty:

in the immortal words of batman begins, that's vengence...not justice.
that whole eye for an eye thing..or tooth for a tooth.."it just leaves you with a bunch of blind toothless people"

[FableFreak]

Originally Posted by Sephiroxas

in the immortal words of batman begins, that's vengence...not justice.
that whole eye for an eye thing..or tooth for a tooth.."it just leaves you with a bunch of blind toothless people"

You only focused on the FIRST HALF OF MY POST!!!!

That was only a way for someone to think about how they would feel if their closest loved one or relative was killed.

Better yet, how about this?

If you were murdered in cold blood would you want to see your murderer live their life out while they cut yours short without remorse? I know I wouldn't, I would want to see their ass fried/shot/or dead in general. Trust me, go ahead and ask any person anywhere and I bet 90% of them would say they would want to see their murderer brought to justice (i.e. death penalty). I'm not focusing on "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" BS because I haven't mentioned once, you are acting like I say it over and over again or something

[Angel]

Originally Posted by fablefreak1

Ok, how about this. If someone killed your closest relative or loved one in a gruesome, horrific, and painful way how would you feel? Would you want them to live their life and spare them mercy? Why shouldn't they have to go through the same thing your loved one had to endure, not to mention the fact that lethal injection is painless because it simply stops heart functions. Why should they sit in a prison cell without regret for their whole life knowing that they were kept alive and that even hough they have blood on their hands they simply don't care. That is something I want you to think about...

So there is no more f*cking confusion...

Evidence why we NEED the death penalty:

This is a true story, I'm not making this up

A woman was sentanced to life in prison for killing her 18 year old son for no reason, she had no reason, she just killed him in cold blood. She was NOT mentally insane and no history of drug use. She was sent to jail where she remained for 8 years. On the eight year she was put on parole for good behavior. After she leaves the prison she goes home and guess what she does? SHE KILLS HER HUSBAND FOR NO REASON!!! She was sent back to prison to serve the rest of her life sentance w/out the posibillity of perole, that is why we should not grant perole to murderers and why we need the death penalty.

Forgive me for asking, but how is that evidence? 'She killed two of her family and that is why we need the death penalty'. Just cause you don't know the reason and the courts couldn't get a reason out of her doesn't mean that there wasn't one. Sorry, but that is a poor argument.

As for lethal injection, it is not necessarily a painless thing - the following study comes from the NCADP:

"An examination of 49 autopsies found that in 43 cases, the concentration of anesthetic in the bloodstream was less than what is required to numb a surgical patient before making an incision. In 21 cases, the concentration wasn't sufficient to prevent a patient from responding to a verbal command."

Life imprisonment without parole reduces the opportunity to re-offend. The death penalty is a poor way to fix a problem that actually has increased and not declined - you're basically saying, "I don't know how to fix this problem so let's just kill them".
Another finding:

The American Bar Association published guidelines for a good defense in a death penalty case: (a) attorneys with prior experience working a capital case, (b) 2 attorneys, 1 investigator, 1 mitigation specialist, and (c) fully funded to pay for travel, private eyes, evidence testing and other things needed to investigate the case. Yet no state meets these standards. And few states pay their state-appointed lawyers well enough to retain competent, effective lawyers.(source: Justice Bureau)

People are being sent to Death Row due to the incompetence of their representatives, not necessarily due to any crimes they may or may not have committed. And the UN opposes the death penalty - so the US is in violation of the regulations of an organisation that it claims to uphold.

And with regards to what you said about how I'd feel if a relative or someone close was killed in a gruesome way, well I can answer that up to a point - a very close friend of mine with severe learning difficulties was taken to the woods by his best friend and stabbed in the face, neck, back and chest over 17 times because this friend wanted to know what it felt like to kill someone. My friend only just survived the attack and his attacker was not sent to prison or even a detention centre - goodness knows why, but I live in the UK and nothing about our judicial system surprises me anymore. I was distraught and angry but at no point did I think that his attacker should be killed for it. And my friend was of the same opinion - he actually felt sorry for his attacker because he figured something was wrong with him for him to act that way; he wanted him to get professional help. What exactly would giving the death penalty have achieved if, as the pros argue, they don't care that they've killed or caused great harm anyway? And to make it even more personal, I have been in a situation myself more than once whereby the possibility of me remaining alive by the end of it was kinda slim, but I never wished death on my attacker.
The ills of society can never be solved simply by killing those who we can't be bothered to punish properly. The death penalty has not been proven to be a successful deterrent against crime - those crimes have actually increased, so surely there needs to be a rethink in how we punish our criminals if the current punishments have little or no effect?

if someone commits a crime that bad then somethings wrong with them.

Then I believe we have a duty as a society to find a way to help deal with their sickness, just like we would if they were physically ill.

[§ephiroxa§]

Originally Posted by fablefreak1

You only focused on the FIRST HALF OF MY POST!!!!

That was only a way for someone to think about how they would feel if their closest loved one or relative was killed.

Better yet, how about this?

If you were murdered in cold blood would you want to see your murderer live their life out while they cut yours short without remorse? I know I wouldn't, I would want to see their ass fried/shot/or dead in general. Trust me, go ahead and ask any person anywhere and I bet 90% of them would say they would want to see their murderer brought to justice (i.e. death penalty). I'm not focusing on "eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth" BS because I haven't mentioned once, you are acting like I say it over and over again or something

yeah considering the second half of your post was an EXAMPLE to what the first part was...

...I can focus and reply to whatever I want.
And I don't care what 90% of the population says.
95% of the population are idiots anyway.
Trust me..I'm not one for vengence...

And if someone kills somone close to you and you want them dead too..that is infact an example of an EYE FOR AN EYE..a LIFE FOR A LIFE..it's the same difference.

[Reaver]

you make good points, and i know alough fablefreak may be implying eye for any eye i dont think its quite what he means, but answer me this...
You got someone in jail with no hope of parole (sp), it doesn't matter why, what is the point of keeping that person alive??? what good can come of it?

[FableFreak]

That was what I was trying to get at this whole time. Thank you for putting it in simpler terms Reaver, +rep 4 u.

[ennio]

Pro , but should only be given to someone proved to kill another

[Hexadecimal]

Con

About 1 in 7 people sentenced to death row are later found to be innocent. Luckily, due to the long waits, most are found innocent before they're put to death, but others are not so lucky. The prospect of putting innocent people to death should be enough to give anyone pause as to the legitimacy of this as a "punishment".

The death penalty has never been shown to deter crime. In fact, in looking at the United States, they have one of the highest crime rates in the world. Looking at those states with the death penalty, their murder rates are on average 50% higher than those without.

Crimes such as murder and rape, those which people seem to find suitable for the death penalty, happen far more often in impoverished neighbourhoods. It stands to reason then that perhaps the problems could be alleviated through better social programs, rather than simply dealing with them after the fact. Politicians in support of the death penalty are most often upper class Republicans who have no problem using death to solve the poverty crisis because it is the cheaper solution in the long run.

[FableFreak]

You made some good points there Hexadecimal, but maybe the reason the murder rate is higher in some states that have the death penalty is because, oh maybe, they need to put the murderers to death? Just a theory....


Look, don't get all over me you people who are Con. I'm just adding info to Pro because no one else is replying, or even putting up a fight. So honestly I don't want to sit here and put up a one man fight when this debate is going nowhere. Con wins unless someone from pro can post a better reason within 3 hours from now. (10:25 PST)