Democracy!

[Angel]

No one should be insulted either on or off the boards. Disagreements happen but most of the time people are mature enough to apologise (either publicly or privately) and the matter is laid to rest.

Showing blatant disrespect for a staff member doesn't go down well largely because, like it or not, they are in charge and to a degree command some respect within this role. If it became a free-for-all in insult throwing then it shows a lack of authority and makes the place look a bit wild and out of control. This goes for both members and staff alike - staff members are spoken to regarding their behaviour in a manner which is appropriate - either via PM or on the boards, same with a regular member. If a thread was closed by the offending mod/admin, then to continue it on the boards is pointless and so they are dealt with via PM. If the discussion is still open, they are more often than not dealt with publicly. You have all seen this in the past. Privately is preferred so that the overall reputation and impression given of the site and community as a whole is not one of chaos and tyranny because that doesn't help anyone.

One has to ask the question, however, why the need to "get back" rather than offer the chance of a sensible discussion was a necessary action? Or perhaps a better course would be for the member in receipt of such a PM to forward it to another member of staff to look at? I understand we all lose our tempers, but a tit-for-tat mentality gets us nowhere.

But no, insults are not ok for anyone - regardless of position - and if someone reports it or it is publicly seen then it is dealt with even though it may not be the yell-fest everyone loves to read and is secretly glad it's nothing to do with them. Drama is never preferred over private discussion here, although sometimes we can't win because when we close a thread to avoid further flaming we get yelled at for censorship.

In this vein, if there is something or someone specifically which you wish to discuss, I would really recommend we continue this discussion via PM, if you are agreeable.

[blue crow]

So mods can insult members and its okay gotcha thanks for showing me this system of modding.

[Angel]

At what point did I say or insinuate that? Pretty sure the first sentence covers it...

[blue crow]

Second paragraph is a big thing about it being bad for insulting mods. One has to wonder what can be said or cant be said all because a mod might get mad and ban them.

[Angel]

Then you haven't understood my point there. I was referring to your assumption that insulting a mod is a big no-no, in your words, and was explaining the reasons for why there is a heavier penalty when showing blatant disrespect for those in charge. It was not specific to any event and was not specific to someone being banned after a PM containing an insult - just a general overview. It is bad to insult ANYONE - but to attempt to undermine existing authority figures has more of an effect on the community than perhaps people realise.

Someone was banned, for example, on our DMC board for telling me to shut the **** up. I didn't ban him but our mod did and it turned out there were a number of posts he had seen which I hadn't where this guy often told people to do **** off and was very rude about both staff and members in general. There had been repeated private warnings but he didn't care and was banned for a week. He has since returned and all is fine...

Had it been a one-time thing he would have been warned and that's it. People didn't see the private warnings, obviously, so some couldn't understand the reason for the ban. Had they done some looking around it should have been blatantly obvious.

No one is forced to join these sites but they are obliged to abide by the rules. There are the VBulletin rules and the Projectego rules and both apply. If no one reads them before ticking the "I agree" box, then that's hardly the fault of the staff...

[blue crow]

Give me awhile to reply back to that i written a reply to that somewhere.

[Angel]

That's fine - take your time. Sounds far more organised than me anyway

[xSiLeNtxD34tHx]

I do kind of feel like it's a dictatorship more than anything here... I'm not saying anyone is corrupt here, im just saying that I feel like if I mess up once mods will be all over me... Every one gets mad everyonce in a while... Yes they could get off the forums and just forget about it, but when your right there and feel as if you have been insulted you can hardly not fight back.

Then if you do, you are the one getting in trouble.

I hope you can understand what I said, I didn't explain it that well im tired of typing today.

[Angel]

I don't expect for one minute that everyone has the superhuman ability to simply forget they've been insulted. I've had my fair share of run-ins here myself and if Steve hadn't said "leave it and wait till later" I' have lost my rag completely and probably my membership here too.

If there has been some action taken by staff in the past concerning your specific posts or something then I can assure you that it is firmly staying there - in the past. I don't personally recall anything, because my memory sucks, but if I or any of the staff have given the impression you're on your last chance here I'd like to rectify that, if I may.

PM's are used to sort out the various grievances people have but if they are being used as the sole platform for banning people than that is something which needs addressing as it is unfair. But if there are other factors (current ones, not ancient history!) in play such as continually arguing in threads or starting angry threads aimed at other people then these have to be considered, as I've already said.

Defending yourself is perfectly acceptable - of course it is - but when it descends into both sides just being horrible to each other then that isn't right. Regardless of position. There was a case where this happened in a thread and I posted my annoyance at the behaviour of both the staff and members involved. I then privately addressed it with the staff as that was more appropriate than posting in a closed thread.

Perhaps what some do no realise here is that the more "all mods are evil" threads and posts we get, the less Fable stuff we rank for and then people won't come here and get to be involved in what is a very fruitful community full of dedicated people. Don't know about you but I don't want this place to be known as a trolling paradise...

[projectego]

Originally Posted by blue crow

Edit - Steve your agisent it cause you dont want your undisputed power taken away.

I have undisputed power? That's news to me!

And I'm against the idea because it's not a very good one.

[Angel]

As has already been said - many times in many places on the forums - not one staff member overrules another. We have a little democracy of our own, if you like - things are discussed, voted on and only if everyone is happy does a decision go ahead. If Steve had undisputed power, no one would be here

[FableFreak]

Originally Posted by projectego

Totally against the idea.


Just to clarify: It's up to me and Andy what happens here. Not highlighting this to have a dig at you, FF, far from it. I love you! Just making sure DD gets the credit he deserves.

And I'd say that the site pays for itself.

I love you too Steve!



But I assumed Andy knew how much I love him also, so I felt that leaving him out would be no different.


I love EVERYONE!

[Angel]

Ok, where is Fable Freak and what have you done with him?

[Dark Drakan]

Originally Posted by blue crow

Also andy when he was dateing hex made her a mod all because they were going out.

She was suggested for the position long before that so make sure you get all the facts before jumping to conclusions. Also ive warned you before about bringing her into things. Sharon summed that up perfectly in her comment.

Originally Posted by Angel

However, Hex became a mod because at the time Steve had stuff going on and we needed the extra pair of hands. There were three or four candidates put forward and Hex came out on top not because of her relationship with Andy but because she was posting links, helping people out and other stuff. Things went downhill because of complaints, personal reasons for her and other issues going on both on and off the boards which meant it was not possible to continue her position as it was. You all know this, so I will not reiterate further.

Well said and i have nothing to add to that as ive warned people about bringing that up time and time again. +rep Mod status is given to people who deserve it and who are right for the job.

Originally Posted by Angel

f people don't like the rules, then signing up here is a bit pointless...but the only people who rage against the machine are those who have told someone to **** off or whatever and been hauled for it.

Agreed, if you dont agree to the rules then why tick the box that says you do to register.

Originally Posted by blue crow

Say if someone pmed a mod an insult and mod banned him is that fair in your eyes?

Would you intentionally walk up to a policeman and slap them in the face for giving you a warning?

Originally Posted by blue crow

Say it was an insult for getting back at someone. anyone from i think this is goona get at your goona say mods shouldent be insulted even in pms. So its okay for regular members to insult each other in pms. But if a member insults a mod after being insulted its a major no no.

No-one should be insulted in PM's and if they are it is reported to us and appropriate action is taken. The mods are here to help and not to be insulted or insult others.

Originally Posted by FableFreak

I love you too Steve!



But I assumed Andy knew how much I love him also, so I felt that leaving him out would be no different.


I love EVERYONE!

Guess i do now but feels less special now that you love everyone, i thought i was part of a small group.

[FableFreak]

You know I was being sarcastic Andy. I hate you all.