RELIGION Discussion Page 44

Angel · 12-20-2007, 08:31 PM

Give me an example - I work better with something to picture

Albion Knight · 12-20-2007, 08:47 PM

Well ideas and organizations have a lot of the same needs there has to be a way to spread the idea and there also has to be a way to defend the idea against other ideas. If I have a brilliant idea about how people can lose weight while watching tv and eating chips. it wouldn't go very far unless part of the idea was that I must tell the world about this or I must make a million dollars selling this. Also if someone says "that's just stupid" I have to be ready to defend it. I may change the idea to be a little easier for people to understand or less likely to be attacked.

Angel · 12-20-2007, 09:20 PM

Thing is, how do you defend something without watering down the absolutes within it? I mean, Christianity is in its very nature a counter-cultural belief system. It always seems to fly in the face of how society at the moment views things. Jesus got on the nerves of the super-religious; Christians today irritate others with their political incorrectness. There are certain things the Bible is very very clear about and when those absolutes come up against a person who doesn't like them, you either clash or some bright spark adapts God's Word to make it more appealing and comfortable - but in doing so, detracts from the power of what is being said and reduces it to merely optional extras as opposed to commands.

I can tell the world about Christianity but the world won't want to hear it until most of the bible is ripped out and rewritten so not a single thing is deemed as wrong or unsuitable behaviour or whatever. And then it is no longer Christianity - it's just...nothing...

Tsuyu · 12-20-2007, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

I can tell the world about Christianity but the world won't want to hear it until most of the bible is ripped out and rewritten so not a single thing is deemed as wrong or unsuitable behaviour or whatever.

Wrong - God needs to come down and tell the world that the Bible is correct. As it stands right now, the Bible could very well be the most successful case of propaganda the world has ever seen. Think about it;

"Ok, so we're writing this book here that is going to be the base of a new religion..."

Not thinking someone would sneak in something, taking advantage of it, is just naive.

Angel · 12-20-2007, 09:40 PM

I guess one could argue that God has already done that by Jesus coming down...still wasn't accepted by everyone though, so who's to say if He turned up again He'd be accepted any more these days?

Tsuyu · 12-20-2007, 09:44 PM

My point is that neither Jesus nor God wrote the Bible - can you really blame people for being skeptic? It has nothing to do with not wanting to believe in a higher power, but in a book of unclear origins.

Who really did write the Bible is one of the greatest mysteries plaguing historians today.

Angel · 12-20-2007, 09:59 PM

It's an interesting mystery though - something like that becoming so popular throughout most of the world despite not knowing certain things about it.

Obviously there are a number of authors of the Bible - and I think not all of those credited with the writing of a section were those who physically wrote it. Paul often dictated his words to a scribe, so I guess there must have been a certain level of trust for him to believe the scribe would not write just any old thing down...

I don't blame or have issue with anyone who is skeptical of the Bible - but there must be some reason why it is so popular in comparison with other texts and tracts...maybe it was down to Constantine, or the Celts or some other group who had influence at the time...I just don't know. The early Christians didn't have a bible to work from so people took them at their word - I don't know why they would believe them but they did....

I'm probably (as usual

) completely wrong here, but aren't some of the books of the Bible written by people that historians can identify? Like Paul, Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Solomon, Peter etc? Again, very likely I am mistaken

Tsuyu · 12-20-2007, 10:06 PM

Some parts of it, yes. But it is also not clear if they did indeed write it or not. For example we have an old King here in Sweden who was the king in the.... long time ago. Before him the Bible was written in Latin, and so where the preaching so the common folk didn't much know what it was about.

This king got fed up of it, and decided that the common man should be allowed to understand it. So he "had the Bible written in Swedish".

Now obviously we know that he personally didn't write the Bible in Swedish, but he is credited for doing so in a way and at first glance it would indeed appear to be that way.

Albion Knight · 12-20-2007, 10:13 PM

Quote:

The first part of the bible was supposedly written by moses

Solomon is credited with writing Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, and Song of Solomon

The author of Hebrews is unknown

The Book of the Revelation of Jesus Christ is believed to have been penned by the Apostle John

Source

Angel · 12-20-2007, 10:15 PM

I suppose when the Bible was first translated, there would have been quite a few words that were indigenous to one area or another and no other language may have had a direct translation for those words...and then the next translation would have struggled with some different words and so on...

However, the core message still seems to remain the same...

Different sources cite different people as the various authors of the Bible. I don't think, personally, that certain people would have been capable of actually writing those parts given their known history. On the whole, fishermen were not usually educated enough to be able to write fluently, if at all...maybe as they spoke, someone took notes or something? I dunno...

Albion Knight · 12-20-2007, 10:36 PM

The Bible is also a collection of 66 books written or "penned" if you will by many different people over more than 1500 years

I'm pretty sure that there is some sort of canonization process that it went through in order to be included in the "Final copy" I wonder if some ancient script was left out.

A quick search reveals the there is some truth to that idea and even some books written on the subject.

The final canonization would be the most important part for God to oversee I'd imagine.

What about since then? Why did God stop writing? I mean his first collection of books did so well why not a sequel? The world could certainly use one.

Angel · 12-20-2007, 10:42 PM

There is much debate about the Apocrypha - a collection of texts omitted from the common bible but sometimes included by the Roman Catholics, although rejected by the Protestants.
Apocrypha - is it Scripture?

but yeah, I think in areas they could not agree, some texts may well have been left out after deciding whether they added anything necessary or revelatory to the overall bible.

Albion Knight · 12-20-2007, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

There is much debate about the Apocrypha - a collection of texts omitted from the common bible but sometimes included by the Roman Catholics, although rejected by the Protestants.
Apocrypha - is it Scripture?

but yeah, I think in areas they could not agree, some texts may well have been left out after deciding whether they added anything necessary or revelatory to the overall bible.

I don't mean to get technical but how could they disagree? How could they contradict God? Or was each group claiming that God said there version was the right one. One of them was lying

Angel · 12-20-2007, 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Albion Knight

I don't mean to get technical but how could they disagree? How could they contradict God? Or was each group claiming that God said there version was the right one. One of them was lying

Welcome to the world of religious/political power

People suck, basically. The Christian church split off in so many directions and has been added to or detracted from according to certain interpretations - the Roman Catholics have extra bits that are not in accordance with the bible and the Protestants have done the same in places - especially the Puritans.

I personally think that the Apocrypha would be included if it was that important - if God has indeed been the one who authorised the bible and inspired the authors then I think He is more than capable of ensuring that nothing is omitted that should be in there.

Christianity has been tossed about from pillar to post by politics, personal agendas and censorship over the years...and those in power will have undoubtedly messed with the bible as they saw fit...

Tsuyu · 12-20-2007, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Angel

Christianity has been tossed about from pillar to post by politics, personal agendas and censorship over the years...and those in power will have undoubtedly messed with the bible as they saw fit...

Not to mention it's own decent into corruption during the dark ages, which ended up forming the Protestant movement.