Time Machine...?

EgoAlchemist · 07-04-2009

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Well, it can be changed. Of course if you change the past, the future will change too.

If i say like this; The future know already you would change it.. I don't know how i would say it on English.

Jnerkin1548 · 07-04-2009

i think it would be too complicated.......maybe like a pre-quel too fable 1 or something when scarle robes was still a hero and not your mother but not a time machine

Tsuyu · 07-04-2009

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Originally Posted by Daemon300

Well, it can be changed. Of course if you change the past, the future will change too.

E.g. Someone evil changed the past and that affected the future, so we have to go back and change the past again so the future will be normal.

Then you didn't actually change the past - because in whatever manner the past transpired when you "changed it" will be the past your "future" from which you traveled back in time will be based on that "past".

For example - going back in time to kill Hitler in order to prevent WW II is impossible.

Why?

Because WW II did happen. If someone went back and killed Hitler and prevented WW II, we would not know what the heck WW II was because it never happened. Which also means he wouldn't have gone back in time to prevent it.

Daemon300 · 07-04-2009

If someone went back and killed Hitler and prevented WW II, we would not know what the heck WW II was because it never happened.

Yes, that's true. So you can change the future and the past.

Tsuyu · 07-04-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daemon300

If someone went back and killed Hitler and prevented WW II, we would not know what the heck WW II was because it never happened.

Yes, that's true. So you can change the future and the past.

No, you just(rather I) proved as to why it can't.

Like all things, it can be explained in Futurama: The main character, Fry, goes back in time and he is warned all along not to alter anything. However, he accidentally kills his "grandfather"(the girlfriend of his grandmother at the time, whom all believe to be his actual grandfather) by hiding him in a secure spot... on a nuclear testing range. Does he vanish from time and space when he kills his grandfather, preventing his father(and himself) from being born?

No. Because it turns out that all along he was his own grandfather when he accidentally slept with his grandmother and being the father of his own father! So rather than changing the past, he simply acted out the past in the way it did happen.

Daemon300 · 07-04-2009

No I didn't. And I don't undestand yours. We just wouldn't know what WW II is. So, the past and the future would be changed.

Tsuyu · 07-04-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daemon300

No I didn't. And I don't undestand yours. We just wouldn't know what WW II is. So, the past and the future would be changed.

But we KNOW what WW II - thusly it can't be changed. WW II must've happened for someone to KNOW about it in order to travel back and change it.

However, if he did change it so that it didn't happen, he wouldn't KNOW about WW II in the future from which he traveled back in time - and he wouldn't have gone back in time to change it.

As such, if something has happened in the past you can't change it.

I don't know how much more clear I could be. If you travel back in time to change something, and successfully change it, you wouldn't have any reason to travel back in time and change it.

Ryu_the_fox · 07-04-2009

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Originally Posted by Tsuyu

So rather than changing the past, he simply acted out the past in the way it did happen.

Lol i was gonna say something like that. That everything is supposed to happen the way it happens. You can't change the future, present or past.
By going to the past you are causing the future. Like when Kyle Reese went back in time and fathered John Connor. There would be no John Connor had he not gone to the past, he merely caused the future o be the future.

So i'm just saying that time machine missions wont change anything but keep everything the way its meant to be.

and what about going to the future in Fable...?
Maybe we can like meet master chief or something...

sirgage0 · 07-04-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tsuyu

But we KNOW what WW II - thusly it can't be changed. WW II must've happened for someone to KNOW about it in order to travel back and change it.

However, if he did change it so that it didn't happen, he wouldn't KNOW about WW II in the future from which he traveled back in time - and he wouldn't have gone back in time to change it.

As such, if something has happened in the past you can't change it.

I don't know how much more clear I could be. If you travel back in time to change something, and successfully change it, you wouldn't have any reason to travel back in time and change it.

Well, if we're gonna get scientific, let's go....
If a time machine was possible, yes, you COULD change things all you wanted. If you could go back and, say, kill Hitler, you would not be changing anything in YOUR timeline. BUT, an alternate timeline would be created where there was never WWII. Time would branch off into another direction, but still leave the old timeline in tact...
To incorporate this into Fable, you could go back, change whatever, then go back to "the future" that you have created for yourself...

Tsuyu · 07-04-2009

Alternative timelines aren't scientific at all. Unless you count Science Fiction - emphasis on fiction.

The key is to remember that the past happened before you went back in time, and any changes there would affect the events leading up to you going back in time.

Lets say I want to kill my own grandfather. So I go back in time and kill him. But wait - if I kill him, that means neither me or my father will be born, thus preventing me from traveling back in time to kill my grandfather.

Ergo, I can't change the past by killing my grandfather, because the "future" where I travel back in time requires the "past" to have transpired "correctly".

adenp9070 · 07-04-2009

ok if you killed hitler and prevented ww2 then when you went back nobody would know as it never happened making tsuyu correct, however you would know when you went back, but there could be two of you, as the current you and past you, or neither of you will exist as the butterfly effect could kill your family, country or earth,

Jnerkin1548 · 07-04-2009

that gave me a headache......

Tsuyu · 07-04-2009

That depends.

Do you return to the future? Or do you life your life out and die before the "future" you is born? If you live out your life nothing meeting yourself, I'd save the universe is pretty safe from implodin'.

adenp9070 · 07-04-2009

haha well if you stay in the past then you could end up destroying your own life killing you before your born (back to the future) or say you did kill hitler that could allow a jewish bomb techniction to create something that radiates the world killing everything
so anything can happen really, can even keep the world rulled by dinosaurs

Tsuyu · 07-04-2009

Well, the fact that you're in the past as a result of yourself traveling there from the future pretty much guarantees that you can't accidentally kill any of your relatvies related to your own birth... because then you couldn't be in the past.